Netizens-Digest Thursday, April 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 487 Netizens Association Discussion List Digest In this issue: Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? Re: [netz] More or less democracy Re: [netz] More or less democracy Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? [netz] Review of Netizens from Journal published by Romanian Academy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:31:23 +0000 (GMT) From: gds@best.com (Greg Skinner) Subject: Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: > I've attached a posting to the CYBERTEL mailing list from Gordon > Cook. It is somewhat long, and I hope I don't offend anyone by doing > so. Normally, I'd post a URL to it, but while it was sent to a public > list, it's not archived in a manner where I can give a direct link to > it. I found the attached posting at http://www.cookreport.com/12.03.shtml. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:43:27 -0400 From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Subject: Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? >Howard C. Berkowitz wrote: > >> I've attached a posting to the CYBERTEL mailing list from Gordon >> Cook. It is somewhat long, and I hope I don't offend anyone by doing >> so. Normally, I'd post a URL to it, but while it was sent to a public >> list, it's not archived in a manner where I can give a direct link to >> it. > >I found the attached posting at >http://www.cookreport.com/12.03.shtml. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:59:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Jay Hauben Subject: Re: [netz] More or less democracy Hi, My thought is that netizens are people who through their life and practice help to build the Net and spread full access to it. Universal access has been the goal I have tried to contribute to. That would mean free access or at minimal cost. Universal full net access would enable all people, if they want, to be part of a world wide discussion of the problems and joys of our collective existence and would make available the information and opinions to strengthen their participation in the political process. There are many people around the world who are aiming for similar goals. They were the impetus for this list to be founded. No one assigns the right to be a netizen. Like citizens in the French revolution, netizens recognize each other by their work. If you are interested in Michael's discussion of the question, you can look at the Preface to the book or where it was posted recently on the web at http://umcc.ais.org/~jrh/acn/text/acn11-1.articles/acn11-1.a12.txt Larry wrote: > > I would like to see a comprehensive solution that Jay proposes for > participatory democracy. Let's argue about that. I want to see solutions! > (banging gavel precipitously). > If Larry and others are interested in democracy based on active and determining participation of citizens in the decision making process, I would recommend your reading "Participatory Democracy: From the 1960s and SDS into the Future Online". Michael wrote it in Dec 1995. It can be seen at: http://umcc.ais.org/~jrh/acn/text/acn11-1.articles/acn11-1.a15.txt. If there were real interest in the question or in Michael's understanding of it, we might decide to serialize that long article on the list so we could discuss it collectively. Take care. Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:54:48 -0400 From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" Subject: Re: [netz] More or less democracy >Hi, > >My thought is that netizens are people who through their life and practice >help to build the Net and spread full access to it. Universal access has >been the goal I have tried to contribute to. That would mean free access >or at minimal cost. Jay, I understand that you want free or low cost access. Do you disagree, however, that building and operating the net involves significant cost? How does this get funded under your model? >Universal full net access would enable all people, if >they want, to be part of a world wide discussion of the problems and joys >of our collective existence and would make available the information and >opinions to strengthen their participation in the political process. There >are many people around the world who are aiming for similar goals. They >were the impetus for this list to be founded. No one assigns the right to >be a netizen. Like citizens in the French revolution, netizens recognize >each other by their work. > >If you are interested in Michael's discussion of the question, you can >look at the Preface to the book or where it was posted recently on the web >at http://umcc.ais.org/~jrh/acn/text/acn11-1.articles/acn11-1.a12.txt > >Larry wrote: >> >> I would like to see a comprehensive solution that Jay proposes for >> participatory democracy. Let's argue about that. I want to see solutions! >> (banging gavel precipitously). >> > >If Larry and others are interested in democracy based on active and >determining participation of citizens in the decision making process, I >would recommend your reading "Participatory Democracy: From the 1960s and >SDS into the Future Online". Michael wrote it in Dec 1995. It can be seen >at: http://umcc.ais.org/~jrh/acn/text/acn11-1.articles/acn11-1.a15.txt. > >If there were real interest in the question or in Michael's understanding >of it, we might decide to serialize that long article on the list so we >could discuss it collectively. Speaking only for myself, I'm not interested in discussing the creation of participatory democracy as a replacement for the current system. I don't regard the current system as broken, and I certainly don't want to replace it with something untried. But both participation in a participatory or a republican democracy, if enabled by a net, still involves having a net. Given the existence of the net is a sine qua non both for increasing involvement in republican democracy and for creating self-representative democracy, I cannot understand why our priority is not first ensuring the continued viability of the net, while discussions of political systems operate independently. There are very real and immediate concerns about the viability of the telecommunications industry, of strategies of providing affordable universal access, of protecting the net against direct attack, about content control by censorship or business interest, etc. Jay, am I correct in understanding you feel addressing these concerns is of lesser priority than advocating participatory democracy as a new political paradigm? Again, I ask: how is that net created and maintained? Where do the billions of dollars come from? > >Take care. > >Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:38:57 EDT From: AGENTKUENSTLER@aol.com Subject: Re: [netz] Time Perspectives on Netizenship? - --part1_146.ed7fbb3.2bc776b1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/03 12:56:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hcb@gettcomm.com writes: > >For example they would seek to offer international VoIP over their > >own dedicated network while a new competitor can dispense with the > >sunk cost of maintaining a physical network by simply renting access > >to an Internet that others maintain. Since the competition has only > >to rent access to transport and run voice as an application on that > >transport, it can offer service that is unencumbered by legacy costs. > >The business model of control of both applications and customers > >prevents productive investment Never go against the flow. Regarding commoditization, we should just acquiesce to the will of the market. The government should (1) buy out all of the legacy infrastructure. (2) partition physical regions nationwide by a consumer density metric or otherwise 'viability,' whatever that is supposed to mean. Revenue is derived from 'last mile infrastructure maintenance fees' or from the provision of value-added services to consumers or the construction of 'whatever works' in each partitioned domain. To define these domains, you classify consumer types and come up with a mix of corporate and non-corporate subscribers that you know must be in a domain to engender a profit. (3) auction leased access to these partitioned regions to new companies (probably 'the usual suspects' renamed) who will locally manage or maintain the local end of the new Stupid networks and the local gateways to the main trunks. These companies will control the consumers -- not necessarily run any apps. Problem solved. Now we can enjoy commoditized services. Next. Larry - --part1_146.ed7fbb3.2bc776b1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 4/10/03 12:56:40 AM Eastern Dayligh= t Time, hcb@gettcomm.com writes:

>For example they would seek= to offer international VoIP over their
>own dedicated network while a new competitor can dispense with the
>sunk cost of maintaining a physical network by simply renting access
>to an Internet that others maintain. Since the competition has only
>to rent access to transport and run voice as an application on that
>transport, it can offer service that is unencumbered by legacy costs. >The business model of control of both applications and customers
>prevents productive investment



Never go against the flow.  Regarding commoditization, we should just a= cquiesce to the will of the market.  The government should

(1) buy out all of the legacy infrastructure.

(2) partition physical regions nationwide by a consumer density metric or ot= herwise 'viability,' whatever that is supposed to mean.  Revenue is der= ived from 'last mile infrastructure maintenance fees' or from the provision=20= of value-added services to consumers or the construction of 'whatever works'= in each partitioned domain.  To define these domains, you classify con= sumer types and come up with a mix of corporate and non-corporate subscriber= s that you know must be in a domain to engender a profit.

(3) auction leased access to these partitioned regions to new companies (pro= bably 'the usual suspects' renamed) who will locally manage or maintain the=20= local end of the new Stupid networks and the local gateways to the main trun= ks.  These companies will control the consumers -- not necessarily run=20= any apps.

Problem solved.  Now we can enjoy commoditized services.  Next.
Larry - --part1_146.ed7fbb3.2bc776b1_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:55:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: [netz] Review of Netizens from Journal published by Romanian Academy This is a review of Netizens from a technical journal published in Romania. It is a very interesting review, so I thought those on the Netizens list would find it of interest. It describes how the author of the review found the book helpful in understanding and helping to educate people who wanted to be netizens. I thought this is relative to our discussion of whether it is appropriate to the Netizens list to recommend reading "Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet", IEEE Computer Society, 1997. Ronda STUDIES IN INFORMATICS AND CONTROL With Emphasis on Useful Applications of Advanced Technology December 1998 Volume 7 Number 4 published under the auspices of the Romanian Academy BOOK REVIEW NETIZENS: On the History and Impact Of Usenet and the Internet Michael Hauben and Ronda Hauben IEEE Computer Society Press, Los Alamitos, 1998, XVI p. + 346 p. ISBN 0-8186-7706-6 The book aims at presenting the development and significance of the participatory global computer network evolving into "an ambitious look at the social aspects of computer networking. It examines the present and the turbulent future, and especially it explores the technical and social roots of the Net". The readership aimed at, is comprised not only of those who are already Netizens but - maybe notably - of those who strive towards getting this status, within the perspective of passing from the latter condition to the former. So, before moving forward, let us see where such a gratifying title comes from - according to Michael Hauben: "My research demonstrated that there were people active as members of the network, which the words net citizen do not precisely represent. The word citizen suggests a geographic or national definition of social membership. The word Netizen reflects the non-geographically based social membership. So I contracted net.citizen to Netizen." Anyhow, the book makes it evident that the word - as well as its denotation and ramifications - are here to stay. The volume is divided into four Parts; each part comprises between three and six Chapters ordinarily consisting of articles written over a four-year period (1993-1996) and set up to be read individually. The first Part, The Present: What Has Been Created and How, has four Chapters providing an introduction to the net world: the effect it has on peoples lives (now, after the moment when the critical mass of people and interests has been reached), Usenet (its evolution and goal as "poormans ARPANET"), the social forces behind its development, and the description of the Usenet (including the conceivable antithetical features of structure anarchy and the system of rules known as "Netiquette"), emphasising the advantages of this new world as well as the possibility of a "more democratic government". The second Part, The Past: Where Has It All Come From, is the largest one, being composed of six chapters, and starts with the "vision of interactive computing and the future" originated by Licklider and proceeds on describing the foundations of the cybernetic revolution, time sharing, man-computer symbiosis and their implications. Chapter 7 looks "behind the Net", introducing "the untold story of the ARPANET and computer science" highlighting the new way of viewing the computer: a communication device rather than (only) an arithmetic one, whereas the next Chapter is a comprehensive narrative of the birth and development of the ARPANET. The last two Chapters bring into focus the early history and impact of Unix, and the roots of the "co-operative online culture", respectively. In one of its Appendices are listed two Newsgroups appearing in Usenet in 1982. The third Part, And the Future?, comprises five Chapters. In Chapter 11, the National Telecommunications Information Administration virtual conference on the future of the Net (held in November 1994) is described as a very significant event, attempting to create a prototype for a democratic decision-making process. The next Chapter, with the inciting title "Imminent Death of the Net Predicted!" - a phrase often used in the past, by Usenet pioneers, when problems seemed insurmountable - explains the new problems ensued by the envisaged changes in the nature, ownership, and oversight of the Net, defending the principles that place its development into the hands of the public, educational, and scientific sectors of society (i.e. considering the privatisation harmful). Chapter 13 investigates the effect of the Net on the professional news media, under the metaphor of "Will this kill that?"; its conclusion is rather optimistic: the user masses becoming "netizen reporters" will force the acknowledged news media - to avoid being increasingly marginalized - to evolve a new role, challenging the premise that authoritative professional reporters (almost always biased, consciously or not) are the only possible ones. Chapter 14 scrutinises the effect of the Net upon the future of politics, forecasting the "ascendancy of the Commons" by reason of the new technologies presenting "the chance to overcome the obstacles preventing the implementation of direct democracy". The last Chapter of this part departing from the changes on a world scale, explores the New York City's online community, showing a snapshot of "nyc.general", and concluding that, in spite of being problems online, the advantages are "more important and outweigh the disadvantages". The fourth Part, Contributions Toward Developing a Theoretical Framework, consists of three Chapters. Two of them address characteristic areas: "The Expanding Commonwealth of Learning" and ""Arte": An Economic Perspective", respectively. As regards the first issue, "making a contribution is an integral part of Netizen behavior" and "both the printing revolution and the Net revolution have been a catalyst for increased intellectual activity". With respect to the second question, after accentuating the role of "Arte" in the production of social wealth, the authors defend Humes observation that "arte" leads to intellectual ferment, and, in turn, this ferment "is the needed support for the development of technology". The last Chapter merges the consequences of the former ones into a whole, synthesising them in its title - perhaps the bannerol of the entire book: "The Computer as a Democratizer", one main idea being that the "step toward universally available and affordable access" and "uncensored accessible press" demonstrate that "it is now possible to meet more of Mills requirements for democracy". At the end, before the substantial and numerous references, the Glossary of Acronyms is, particularly for readers outside the American cultural milieu, an invaluable asset. Maybe, this condensed passing through the content can give you an idea about this book, but it could be inconclusive, because the mesmerising force is originated by - or, better, in - the multitude of quotations from known, and mostly unknown, "co-authors", the conventional ones remaining in the background, as unpretentious editors, devoting themselves to the chore of taskbuilding. Consequently, "Netizens" becomes rather an aggregate of articles, than an orchestrated ensemble with its unbroken composition and, in turn, the articles become a kind of syncretic and chaotical, but very enthusiastic and, first of all, very fertile opinion pool. Though, the whole might be seen in the optimistic view of the Net, as well as the cyberspace it embodies, as a "meritocratic" environment; the book suggests us a microsnapshot of such an ambience. The feeling - intended or not - is that the book has been written by Netizens for themselves, as an entreaty, a summons to all readers - whatever and where ever they are - to join them in the extraordinary world they live in. Thus, the book employs, at its much smaller scale, the "large-scale customization" made workable by the Internet it fights for. By the way, have you seen many books with Foreword, Preface and Introduction? Yes, the book is full of redundancy and heterogeneity - just like the Net, just like life itself (fortunately, some of the redundancies are quite pleasant, covering most crucial historical moments of the marvellous phenomenon they depict). Reading it, you will find a very rich authentication, a host of peoples with a lot of ideas, comments, proposals and - sometimes - displeasure, rising their voices; you will discover rather the atmosphere of a "multimodal chat" than that of a conference with invited papers. So, if you imagined that you could learn from this book about network programming, forget it. Yes, the Internet is in there, but as an actor - in all interpretations of this polysemantic word - not as a computerised tomography. Thus, paradoxically, the book is net-centred because it is human-centred, or, pure and simple, human. If you read it again - it is in no way a chore - and all seems all right, nothing is amazing or frightening, then you are prepared for full Netizenship (of course, you need a computer, too!). Moreover, from the wording as well as from some rare photographs, you may scent the flavour of old battles (with legendary heroes like Wiener, Shannon, McCarthy, Licklider, Thompson, Ritchie ...), fought for forwarding not only the Net, but the Computer Science itself. Such a flavour acts in the age of Netizens as a catalyst for the Information Technology. Thus, the book can be seen - and used - as a kind of second-degree catalyst: the written catalyst for the living one... Boldur Barbat http://www.ici.ro/ici/revista/sic98_4/art06.html ------------------------------ End of Netizens-Digest V1 #487 ******************************