Netizens-Digest        Monday, October 1 2001        Volume 01 : Number 394

Netizens Association Discussion List Digest

In this issue:

       [netz] Netizen Hauben
       [netz] UPDATE: The 12hr ISBN-JPEG Project
       [netz] A view from New York City
       [netz] About the memorial reading from the works of Michael Hauben
       Re: [netz] A view from New York City
       Re: [netz] A view from New York City
       Re: [netz] A view from New York City
       Re: [netz] A view from New York City
       [netz] polls (WAS: A view from...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:17:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben)
Subject: [netz] Netizen Hauben

>From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Jul 27 13:15:36 2001
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:15:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: <MAILER-DAEMON@ais.org>
To: jrh
Subject: mail failed, returning to sender
Reference: <m15QBD4-001b6GC@umcc.ais.org>

|------------------------- Failed addresses follow: ---------------------|
 netiznes@columbia.edu ... transport smtp: 550 <netiznes@columbia.edu>... User unknown
|------------------------- Message text follows: ------------------------|
Received: by umcc.ais.org
	via send-mail with stdio
	id <m15QBD4-001b6GC@umcc.ais.org>
	for <unknown>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
	(Smail-3.2.0.93 1997-Apr-12 #3 built 1997-Apr-19)
Message-Id: <m15QBD4-001b6GC@umcc.ais.org>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben)
To: netiznes@columbia.edu

Hi,

There is a sensitive article about Michael Hauben appeared on TELEPOLIS 
at:

http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/9180/1.html



Another article appeared about him in a New York newspsper:

http://www.newyorkobserver.com/pages/world.asp

about 2/3 down the page.


Take care.

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:25:09 +0100
From: { brad brace } <bbrace@wiredmag.com>
Subject: [netz] UPDATE: The 12hr ISBN-JPEG Project

                _______ _            __ ___  _
               |__   __| |          /_ |__ \| |
                  | |  | |__   ___   | |  ) | |__  _ __
                  | |  | '_ \ / _ \  | | / /| '_ \| '__|
                  | |  | | | |  __/  | |/ /_| | | | |
                  |_|  |_| |_|\___|  |_|____|_| |_|_|
       _____  _____ ____  _   _            _ _____  ______ _____
      |_   _|/ ____|  _ \| \ | |          | |  __ \|  ____/ ____|
        | | | (___ | |_) |  \| |______    | | |__) | |__ | |  __
        | |  \___ \|  _ <| . ` |______|   | |  ___/|  __|| | |_ |
       _| |_ ____) | |_) | |\  |     | |__| | |    | |___| |__| |
      |_____|_____/|____/|_| \_|      \____/|_|    |______\_____|

                   |  __ \         (_)         | |
                   | |__) | __ ___  _  ___  ___| |_
                   |  ___/ '__/ _ \| |/ _ \/ __| __|
                   | |   | | | (_) | |  __/ (__| |_
                   |_|   |_|  \___/| |\___|\___|\__|
                                  _/ |
                                 |__/


    Synopsis: The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project began December 30, 1994.
A `round-the-clock posting of sequenced hypermodern imagery by Brad
Brace. The hypermodern minimizes the familiar, the known, the
recognizable; it suspends identity, relations and history.


                       The 12-hour ISBN JPEG Project
                       -----------------------------
                          began December 30, 1994


Pointless Hypermodern Imagery... posted/mailed every 12 hours... a
stellar, trajective alignment past the 00`s! A continuum of minimalist
masks in the face of catastrophe; conjuring up transformative
metaphors for the everyday... A poetic reversibility of events...

A post-rhetorical, continuous, apparently random sequence of
imagery...  genuine gritty, greyscale...  corruptable, compact,
collectable and compelling convergence. The voluptuousness of the grey
imminence: the art of making the other disappear. Continual visual
impact; an optical drumming, sculpted in duration, on the endless
present of the Net.

An extension of the printed ISBN-Book (0-9690745) series... critically
unassimilable... imagery is gradually acquired, selected and
re-sequenced over time... ineluctable, vertiginous connections. The
12hr dialtone...

                  [ see  ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/books ]

KEYWORDS:  Disconnected, disjunctive, distended, de-centered,
de-composed, ambiguous, augmented, ambilavent, homogeneous,
reckless...  Multi-faceted, oblique, obsessive, obscure, obdurate...
 Promulgated, personal, permeable, prolonged, polymorphous,
provocative, poetic, plural, perverse, potent, prophetic,
pathological...  Evolving, eccentric, eclectic, egregious, exciting,
entertaining, entropic, erotic, entrancing, enduring...

Every 12 hours, another!...  view them, re-post `em, save `em, trade
`em, print `em, even publish them...

Here`s how:

~ Set www-links to -  http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/12hr.html. Look
for the 12-hr-icon. Heavy traffic may require you to specify files
more than once! Anarchie, Fetch, CuteFTP, TurboGopher...


~  Download from -  ftp.pacifier.com  /pub/users/bbrace
   Download from -  ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace
   Download from -  ftp.rdrop.com   /pub/users/bbrace
   Download from -  ftp.eskimo.com  /u/b/bbrace
* Remember to set tenex or binary. Get 12hr.jpeg

~ E-mail - If you only have access to email, then you can use FTPmail
to do essentially the same thing. Send a message with a body of 'help'
to the server address nearest you:

ftpmail@ccc.uba.ar               ftpmail@cs.uow.edu.au
ftpmail@ftp.uni-stuttgart.de     ftpmail@ftp.Dartmouth.edu
ftpmail@ieunet.ie                ftpmail@src.doc.ic.ac.uk
ftpmail@archie.inesc.pt          ftpmail@ftp.sun.ac.za
ftpmail@ftp.sunet.se             ftpmail@ftp.luth.se
ftpmail@NCTUCCCA.edu.tw          ftpmail@oak.oakland.edu
ftpmail@sunsite.unc.edu          ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
ftpmail@census.gov
bitftp@plearn.bitnet             bitftp@dearn.bitnet
bitftp@vm.gmd.de                 bitftp@plearn.edu.pl
bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu        bitftp@pucc.bitnet


~ Mirror-sites requested! Archives too!
  The latest new jpeg will always be named, 12hr.jpeg
  Average size of images is only 45K.
  *
  Perl program to mirror ftp-sites/sub-directories:
  src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/mirror
  *

~ Postings to usenet groups:
  alt.12hr
  alt.binaries.pictures.12hr
  alt.binaries.pictures.misc
  alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc

* * Ask your system's news-administrator to carry these groups! (There
are also usenet image browsers: TIFNY, PluckIt, Picture Agent,
PictureView, Extractor97, NewsRover, Binary News Assistant, Newsfeeds)

~ This interminable, relentless sequence of imagery began in earnest
on December 30, 1994. The basic structure of the project has been over
twenty-four years in the making. While the specific sequence of
photographs has been presently orchestrated for more than 12 years`
worth of 12-hour postings, I will undoubtedly be tempted to tweak the
ongoing publication with additional new interjected imagery. Each
12-hour posting is like the turning of a page; providing ample time
for reflection, interruption, and assimilation.

~ The sites listed above also contain information on other
transcultural projects and sources.

~ A very low-volume, moderated mailing list for announcements and
occasional commentary related to this project has been established at
topica.com /subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg

- --
This project has not received government art-subsidies. Some
opportunities still exist for financially assisting the publication of
editions of large (36x48") prints; perhaps (Iris giclees) inkjet
quadtones bound as an oversize book. Other supporters receive rare
copies of the first three web-offset printed ISBN-Books.
<< http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html

- --
ISBN is International Standard Book Number. JPEG and GIF are types
of image files. Get the text-file, 'pictures-faq' to learn how to view
or translate these images. [ftp ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace/netcom/]

- --
(c) copyleft  1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2000,2001

<bbrace@eskimo.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 16:28:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben)
Subject: [netz] A view from New York City

Dear Participants of the Netizens List,

Living in NYC I just wrote to a freind in Europe making an observation
about my home city. I wanted to share it with you as well:

I want just briefly to make an observation about NYC.

I was very happy that a war fever could not be whipped up in NYC. Instead,
there were many places where signs appeared saying: "An eye for an eye
will leave the world blind" (Gandhi) and "Our grief is not a cry for
war".

Union Square which is just North of 14th Street became a site for sympathy
and a memorial for the victims and a gathering of peace and anti-war
sentiments. One night on BBC I heard a BBC reporter in Union Square say he
could not find one supporter there for military action. He said there was
genuine grief but more a spirit of peace and anti-racism than for war.

There was one place I saw anti Arab grafitti on a Friday but by Monday it
was replaced by posters: "Islam is Not the Enemy -- War is not the
Answer." and "Respect and Defend our Arab Neighbors". These appeared to be
printed up perhaps on home computers.

A New York City artist wrote in the Chronicle of Higher Education:

"After Tuesday, I can no longer speak as a woman, or an artist, or a New
Yorker. Speaking in those ways -'speaking personally'- will no longer do.
I have to learn to speak as a citizen."  Laurie Fendrich

On one Campus here a group formed called People for Peace. There were
anti-war teach ins and a small peace rally. On the campus, the ban the
bomb symbol appeared as it did in windows of shops in other parts of NYC.

All in all, among most of the people I am in contact there is a
questioning why and how did this happen but no sentiment that bombing or
attacks in the Middle East or anything like that would be a solution.

Parts of New York may be more anti-war than the rest of the country but
they set the example of grief without a cry for war that seems to have
moderated the bravado of the war mongers.

Of course the opportunists are taking advantage to bring a more police
state atmosphere here with restrictions on travel and more police presence
in many places.

Anyway I wanted to send you this personal view from NYC in case it is
helpful to you.

Take care.

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben)
Subject: [netz] About the memorial reading from the works of Michael Hauben

Hi,

A memorial reading from the writings of Michael Hauben was originally
tentatively planned for today September 30, 2001. However due to the
tragedy of September 11 we were told the room reserved for the reading
would not be available at this time. It is now planned that the memorial
reading will take place this coming Spring.

A quote from one of Michael's chapters in Netizens relevant for these
times follows:

"For the people of the world, the Net provides a powerful means for
peaceful assembly. Peaceful assembly allows people to take control of
their lives rather than that control being in the hands of others. This
power deserves to be appreciated and protected. Any medium or tool that
helps people hold or gain power is something special that has to be
protected."  

(from "The Net and Netizens: The Impact the Net Has on People's Lives", p.
26 in Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet)

Take care.

Jay

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:42:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben)
Subject: Re: [netz] A view from New York City

> From: Dan Duris <dusoft@staznosti.sk>

JH> Anyway I wanted to send you this personal view from NYC in case it is
JH> helpful to you.

I was very happy to read your posting, because it shows that there is
a strong anti-war movement, which we don't hear much about in Europe.
CNN is constantly sending messages that Americans want war, so they
will have it. Yes, of course, they also speak about Afghanistan
refugees in Pakistan, but still the image of USA today is the
preparation of war.

Of course, war is not a solution, but I think it should be the special
forces like Delta Force etc... to move into Afghanistan, to make a
rapid fall in to terrorist camps and then fast retreat. Only a battle
against specifically marked destinations will do. Not Afghanistan as
whole, because there are many people (and I believe there is majority
of them), who are against Taliban, against terrorist attacks and for
peaceful life.

dan
- --------------------------
email: dusoft@staznosti.sk
ICQ: 17932727

*- the bat! is my servant, is yours? http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/ -*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:23:41 -0400
From: Mark Lindeman <MTL4@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] A view from New York City

Dan Duris wrote in part,

>I was very happy to read your posting, because it shows that there is
>a strong anti-war movement, which we don't hear much about in Europe.
>CNN is constantly sending messages that Americans want war, so they
>will have it.[...]

Ouch.

I think it's pretty clear that most Americans could support military action 
along the lines that Dan proposes.  Apparently most Americans also share 
Dan's concern that any action should be targeted toward the guilty parties 
- -- even if that means waiting a while to figure out who the guilty parties are.

Ironically, as far as polling data go (not so far at the best of times, 
which these are not), the best evidence for what I've just said comes from 
a poll cosponsored by CNN.  So if CNN is giving the impression of war 
fever, that is shameful.

Mark Lindeman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:00:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen K Truex <skt8@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] A view from New York City

I'd just like to make a small point, though somewhat peripheral to the
previous e-mail. many people know this, but not nearly enough.

"polls" are extremely misleading. even very large polls such as those done
via the internet on cnn.com only garner in the neighborhood of 100
thousand people's opinions. most polls don't come anywhere close to those
numbers (usually only a few thousand at most). yet the public swallows the 
results of these polls information as if they were really conclusive. 
i.e. 90% of americans support the (current) war. if 100 thousand people
who happen to have an internet connection and happen to visit cnn.com say
they support the war is that supposed to reflect the general public
opinion? I don't buy it and neither should anyone else. that number of
people would be approximately 1% of the population of new york city. in
addition, one must keep in mind the demographics of the particular
audience being polled. 

something to think about...


 On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Mark Lindeman wrote:

> Dan Duris wrote in part,
> 
> >I was very happy to read your posting, because it shows that there is
> >a strong anti-war movement, which we don't hear much about in Europe.
> >CNN is constantly sending messages that Americans want war, so they
> >will have it.[...]
> 
> Ouch.
> 
> I think it's pretty clear that most Americans could support military action 
> along the lines that Dan proposes.  Apparently most Americans also share 
> Dan's concern that any action should be targeted toward the guilty parties 
> -- even if that means waiting a while to figure out who the guilty parties are.
> 
> Ironically, as far as polling data go (not so far at the best of times, 
> which these are not), the best evidence for what I've just said comes from 
> a poll cosponsored by CNN.  So if CNN is giving the impression of war 
> fever, that is shameful.
> 
> Mark Lindeman
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:57:09 -0400
From: Mark Lindeman <MTL4@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [netz] A view from New York City

Stephen,

>"polls" are extremely misleading. even very large polls such as those done
>via the internet on cnn.com only garner in the neighborhood of 100
>thousand people's opinions. most polls don't come anywhere close to those
>numbers (usually only a few thousand at most).

As Ronda Hauben can attest, I have a distinctive take on public opinion 
polls....

(This part is not distinctive:)  The raw number of participants in a poll, 
beyond a certain scale, has very little to do with its validity.  Famously, 
in the 1930s, Gallup's election polls were far more accurate than the 
Literary Digest polls although the LD polls had many, many more respondents 
- -- because Gallup had taken more trouble to make sure that his respondents 
were representative of the voting public at large.

Polls done on the Internet, with a few (controversial) exceptions, make no 
effort to be representative.  So, as you explain, there is no reason to 
take them seriously at all.

The survey I alluded to* actually was a telephone poll.  Telephone polls 
have lots of problems, but a well-done telephone poll with a few thousand 
respondents can be pretty darn accurate, as the history of election surveys 
tends to bear out.  As a matter of statistics, it generally doesn't matter 
much what proportion of the population is interviewed; a sample of 1000 out 
of 250,000,000 is much better than a sample of 10 out of 1000, even though 
the former is much "smaller" in percentage terms.

My single biggest problem with conventional polls (which are usually 
telephone polls) is that they tend to ask a few dumb questions that don't 
give people an opportunity to make obvious distinctions.  For instance, one 
obvious question that must have crossed the mind of most Americans is, "If 
the United States launches some sort of military attack against 
'terrorism,' how many innocent people will be killed?  What can be done to 
make sure that any attack punishes the guilty, not the innocent?"  The 
polls I've seen have asked Americans about their willingness to accept 
_American_ deaths, but they haven't explored how many innocent 
_non-Americans'_ deaths would be too many.  I think that Americans are 
often depressingly ignorant of the outside world, but that doesn't mean 
they are morally oblivious.  So why are they asked morally oblivious questions?

>yet the public swallows the
>results of these polls information as if they were really conclusive.

Why do you say that?

Mark Lindeman
Brooklyn, NY (about 2 1/2 miles from the towers)

- --------------------------------------------
* This was a survey conducted by Gallup for CNN and USA Today, in telephone 
interviews on the 14th and 15th.  Initially, the 1032 adult respondents 
were asked, "Do you think the United States should -- or should not -- take 
military action in retaliation for Tuesday's attack on the World Trade 
Center and the Pentagon?"  88% said "should," 8% "should not," and 4% 
expressed no opinion.  A half sample among those who had answered "should" 
were asked a follow-up question: "Which comes closer to your view: the U.S. 
should take military action immediately against known terrorist 
organizations, even if it is unclear which terrorists are responsible for 
the attacks, or the U.S. should take military action only against terrorist 
organizations responsible for the attacks, even if it takes months to 
clearly identify them?" 26% favored the first option; 73% favored the second.

It's always a mistake to take a single survey result 
literally.  Nevertheless, if a large majority were reluctant to endorse 
even an attack against "the wrong terrorists," how much more reluctant 
would Americans be to endorse an indiscriminate attack with heavy civilian 
casualties?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 23:00:38 +0200
From: Dan Duris <dusoft@staznosti.sk>
Subject: [netz] polls (WAS: A view from...)

ML> (This part is not distinctive:)  The raw number of participants in a poll,
ML> beyond a certain scale, has very little to do with its validity.  Famously, 
ML> in the 1930s, Gallup's election polls were far more accurate than the 
ML> Literary Digest polls although the LD polls had many, many more respondents 
ML> -- because Gallup had taken more trouble to make sure that his respondents 
ML> were representative of the voting public at large.

don't tell me about polls... first 2 years of my studies at university
we had 2 classes on social behavioral and especially on opinion polls.
since then i haven't been believing in any polls, especially those
made by phone calls. these phone polls are really awful, but what
makes it worse is that many newspapers and tvs present it as very
representative, because a sample was one thousand something... or at
least they don't tell it is not really worth a look.

>>yet the public swallows the
>>results of these polls information as if they were really conclusive.

ML> Why do you say that?

because it was confirmed by experience. average man (i don't like word
average, but despite of that...) is consuming-oriented man who feels
good in a grey mass and doesn't think a lot. better for him than to
think is to come from work home, to sit in front of this dull, empty
box called tv, to watch it for a while, to eat some chips, to drink
some cheap wine (or beer, if he is slovak :) or someone from this beer
region) and then to go to bed and to sleep.

i don't have any prejudices against masses (ok, some), but this is
my experience of many people living here and there. if you don't
agree, tell me yours.

what is important is this:
YOU think about polls and its results, also STEPHEN thinks about it
and me (sometimes), too. but forget about the man described above...

ML> Brooklyn, NY (about 2 1/2 miles from the towers)
interesting. i hope i will get to usa next summer.

dan
- --------------------------
email: dusoft@staznosti.sk
ICQ: 17932727

*- netizen uses his email, ICQ, IRC on his business cards -*

------------------------------

End of Netizens-Digest V1 #394
******************************