Netizens-Digest Monday, August 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 364 Netizens Association Discussion List Digest In this issue: [netz] Independent media awakening [netz] Response to 8/14 LA Times column on Science and Technology Policy [netz] Response to Gary Chapman, part II ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 08:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben) Subject: [netz] Independent media awakening Hi, The following appeared on the Nettime mailing list. It describes more of what was attempted in Philadelphia by independent media people using community radio and TV and the new technology. Jay - ------------------------------ >From bbs.thing.net!owner-nettime-l Tue Aug 8 11:36:42 2000 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:14:30 -0400 From: DeeDee Halleck Subject: Historic national broadcast To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Sender: owner-nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Dear Colleagues, I just returned from the Philadelphia Independent Media Center where several hundred web writers, photographers, camcorder activists and radio people came together to provide a rare look at the reality behind the US political process. My own task was producing the first television version of Democracy Now, a daily two hour live DBS and KU-analog broadcast to community television stations across the land. I believe that this is the first time that there has been a live, daily progressive national television news. It was all done on a shoe string, with hundreds of hours of volunteer labor and thousands of dollars of donated equipment. There are articles about it on www.mediachannel.org and other on-line journals. We were interviewed by Swiss TV, French TV, Canadian TV, MSNBC, NBC national, CNN, KQED, all of the local network affiliates, the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Columbia Journalism Review, Harpers and the Wall Street Journal. The website is still quite active and gives a good sense of the dynamism of this extraordinary movement, which had its birth in Seattle. www.phillyimc.org You can see the TV show we produced at www.democracynow.org (go to the archive and see the five days of coverage). Or at www.freespeech.org It was exhausting, but totally exhilerating. My old friend, photographer Susan Meiselas came by on Tuesday night and surveyed the chaotic IMC scene in the huge ball room where over a hundred computers, dozens of tv monitors and faxes and printers hummed and flickered. "DeeDee," sez she. "It only took you thirty years." And it did indeed seem like the culmination of a life's work, the realization of a thirty year dream for a national alternative network. But it is the courage of the young people on the barricades that has made this movement real. And it is the movement that has made this extraordinary media mobilization possible. I passed the kids on Tuesday afternoon sitting in the middle of Broad Street: a group of thirty very young people: their faces set in determined resolution as they awaited the charge of the lines of police that had surrounded them. There was a courage in their eyes that I had never witnessed, a courage that I knew I can no longer muster. Most of those kids are still in jail, denying to eat, denying to give their names. The beautiful puppets they made in the months and weeks of preparation were viciously tossed into garbade compacters, or ground under the heels of the Philly SS troops who stormed their workshops without any warrents and destroyed all they could grab. But there will be more puppets made and more streets closed with their bodies. These kids do not give up. As one of them said to me, "they are afraid of us because we have so much love and because we will never give up." It is a new millenium. DeeDee (Now on to Los Angeles and the Democrats!) The following is a list of the segments we included: Democracy Now: Live Television from Philadelphia July 31, 2000 Jim Nicholson A stroll around the convention with RNC chair, Jim Nicholson Billionaires For Bush . . . Or Gore Phil T. Rich, with Billionaires for Bush (or Gore). Millie O'Nare, with Billionaires for Bush (or Gore). A Reality Tour Through Philadelphia Renee Maxwell, homeless advocate from Chicago who is collaborating with the Kensington Welfare Rights Union. Philadelphia: A Legacy Of Police Brutality Ramona Africa, Minister of Communication for MOVE. She is the sole adult survivor of the police bombing of the MOVE home in 1985 Linn Washington, Jr., award winning journalist and columnist or the Philadelphia Tribune, the oldest black newspaper in the country. He is the director of the Print Track for Temple University School of Journalism. ACT UP Unfurls Banner Julie Davids, a member of Philadelphia ACT-UP Shadow Convention: McCain Reiterates Support For Bush The Oiligarchy: Bush And Enron Pratap Chaterjee, an independent journalist who has recently completed a major investigative report on Bush's ties to Enron. He is also the New Media Reporter for Democracy Now! Celia Alaria, a member of Amazon Watch and has just returned from Bolivia where she visited communities effected by Enron projects and met with Enron officials. The Tale Of Two Cities? Camden Luis Morales, from the Concerned Citizens of North Camden and organizes around Vieques. Councilmn Ali Slon-Eel, the Councilman for Camden, New Jersey. Ivan Foster, the President of Democracy for Camden, NJ. August 1, 2000 Democracy Now Confronts President Bush Former President Bush, interview with Amy Goodman. Commentary on Gen. Colin Powell's Speech. David McReynolds, the Socialist Party candidate for president, and a long time anti-war activist with the War Resisters League. Father Roy Bourgeoise, the founder of School of the Americas Watch. Allison Styan, a 17 year old student from Ephrata, Pennsylvania. She was one of nine people arrested protesting the US Army School of the Americas. Activists And Activism In Philly Jia Ching Chan, an organizer with RUCKUS and JUST ACT! Peter Chung, an organizer with the People of Color Holmesburg Prison Allen M. Hornblum, the author Acres of Skin; Human Experiments at Holmsburg Prison and is currently completing a new book on prisons in Philadelphia. Leodus Jones, a victim of the Holmsburg experiments and the Director of a support service for families of prison inmates. Mumia Abu Jamal: Trial By Media Amy interviews Sam Donaldson of 20/20 at the Republican National Convention about his coverage of Mumia's case. Steve Lopez, a Senior Writer at Time magazine who recently published an article on Mumia. Pat Clark, the National Director of the Criminal Justice Project of the American Friends Society. Clark Kissinger, with the organization REFUSE AND RESIST August 2, 2000 Behind The News Ed Herman, professor emeritus at the UPenn and co-author with Noam Chomsky of Manufacturing Consent. Frank Sesno, Vice President of CNN News on Psyops Interns at CNN Oliver North, MSNBC Talk Show Host Jimmy Hoffa, Teamster President And RNC Chair Jim Nicholson Newt Gingrich Drug War Prisoners Nora Callahan, the Executive Director of the November Coalition. Mary Gaines, the leader of the organization Federal Forum which is a program to assist families who have incarcerated family members. She spent eight and a half years in prison for a drug misdemeanor. She is with her children Rakesha, 18 and Ricky, 21. Tamika, a 21 year old woman who is raising her brothers and sisters because her mother and other relatives are in jail. Protesters Call In From Jail: Two Jane Does Unlike Father, Unlike Son Rick Beltram, a Republican delegate from South Carolina and head of his District. Steve Beltram, the son of Rick and is here in Philadelphia protesting the Republican National Convention. Warren Mowry, a Republican Delegate from South Carolina and head of his district Michael Franti, leadsinger from Spearhead on the Cultural Jam! August 3, 2000 Ralph Nader Crashes The Party Amy Goodman takes Ralph Nader into the RNC Gov. George Ryan Of Illinois Speaks On His Moratorium On Death Penalty Gov. George Ryan Meets Ralph Nader And Seems To Like Him Police Step Up Crackdown On Activists Bork, a young anarchist who was arrested this week and beaten up by police. Brian Petruska, a para-legal with the R2K legal collective. Scott Kellogg, a protester detained yesterday who had his truck and possessions confiscated by police Healthcare, Seniors And The Pharmaceutical Industry Pedro Rodriguez, with Action Alliance, the largest Senior Citizen's association in Philadelphia Dr Joel Chinitz, a member of the Philadelphia Physicians for Social Responsibility and the Medical Director of the Physician Assistant program Philadelphia University Mushroom Workers Eduardo Ortega, a delegate of the United Agricultural and Mushroom Workers Union. Maria De Los Angeles Garcia, a representative of the Women's Committee of VLASIC Mushroom company. Muna El-Shakhs, an organizer with CATA (The Farmworkers Support Committee). Jessica Cully, an Intern with CATA (The Farmworkers support Committee) National Youth Convention Rick Veenstra, Chair of the Illinois College of Republicans. Goutam Jois, 18 year old with Youth in Action USA and in 1998 was elected Youth Governor of New Jersey. Jennifer Wilkie, an organizer of the National Non-Partisan Youth Convention. August 4, 2000 George Bush's Address Barbara Gonzalez, a contributing columnist for the San Antonio Express News. Jello Biafra, was the lead singer of the Dead Kennedys, who ran for the Green Party nomination for president. I-Witness Video Police Brutality Wrap-Up Sarah Scully, the founder of I-Witness Video Jay Sand, one of the founders of the IMC in DC Alec Meltzer and Inja Coates co-founders of the Philadelphia Independent Media Center Bush Analysis Lou Debois, the Editor of The Texas Observer and co-author of Shrub - The Short but Happy Political Life of George W Bush. Tour Of Web Site Pratap Chatterjee, New media Reporter for Democracy Now! and Independent Journalist based in San Francisco. High Bail And Surveillance Video of John Sellers arrest. David Rudofsky, Civil Rights attorney from Philadelphia. Gayle Sellers, John Sellers' mother. Larry Krasner, an attorney for John Sellers. Patrick Reinsborough, an organizer with the Rainforest Action Network. Celia Alario, a trainer with the Ruckus Society. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ___________________________________________________________ hosted by Vancouver Community Network http://www.vcn.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: ronda@panix.com Subject: [netz] Response to 8/14 LA Times column on Science and Technology Policy [Gary Chapman had a column in the Monday, August 14 issue of the LA Times on Tech Policy. That column was circulated on some mailing lists like the IP list and the nettime list on Friday August 18. I wrote a response to the column and am sending it to the netizens list for people who may be interested. It has developed into a bit of a discussion so I will also send some of the discussion, and welcome comments about this on the netizens mailing list as well. If anyone wants to see the original column that Chapman sent out, I don't have URL for it, but if you send me email asking for it I'll send a copy. Send me email at ronda@panix.com or ronda@ais.org-R] Gary Chapman wrote: >Gore essentially believes the federal government's role is to support >research and development in so-called critical technologies related to >energy, transportation, the environment and the Internet, among other >fields. Clinton-Gore have led the attack on the Internet by promoting privatization of the Internet and promoting research to benefit industry rather than supporting basic research and a determination of the needed government role in the development and scaling of the Internet. An early speech Gore gave about the Internet promoted the principle of "as much private as possible." There has been no effort by Gore in determining the public interest with regard to the important new development that the Internet represents and making sure that the public interest is supported and protected from corporate attacks. There were means of getting Internet access to all in the US like the Free-Net movement. Gore and Clinton, however, were intent on giving all they could of this important public sector development to the private sector. Today I hear that people don't read their email because their mailboxes are clogged with junk. Basic science research in computer science and technology now means doing research that industry doesn't plan to do for 5 years. That is not the kind of research that has made it possible to create the Internet. That is the kind of research that is concerned with how to transform the Internet in to a commercenet. >Walker, however, believes that the government should invest only in basic >scientific research and leave technological development to the private >sector. Bush's platform on technology calls only for larger investments in >military R&D, a $20-billion-per-year increase. It isn't that the Republican Party is interested in supporting basic research. But basic research is needed, research that looks ahead 10 and 20 years and that looks at what science is interested in, not what industry wants as its next product. At one time ARPA made it possible for computer scientists to do basic research in the US. The US Congress, in the name of attacking military research, actually attacked basic research, and ARPA was forced to become DARPA. The basic research being supported by ARPA had to either become a second cousin to product oriented research, or could no longer be done. Neither the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party in the US are the friend of basic research or of support for the needed science and technical development that will make it possible for the Internet to get the kind of research support it needs to scale and to have its vital functions protected by appropriate public institutional forms. >Gore's model is sometimes called "technology pull," meaning that the goal >of accomplishing something grand, in scientific or technological terms, >pulls the technology toward the goal. Examples include the Apollo space >program in the 1960s and the goal of halting global warming. This means that products are pushed and the basic science research which doesn't show its achievements in a year or two is not supported. >Walker's approach is more like the Cold War decades of military R&D >spinoffs, combined with a faith in the "black box" model of science, >which means that the government simply dumps money into the mysterious >black box of science and out comes something good for society. I don't know what Walker's view is of basic research, but the above characterization is spreads confusion about both the nature of basic research and on the public's understanding of basic research. Government support for scientific work is not "government simply dumps money" into "black box science". The development of interactive computing and the Internet grew out of research into the nature of the human and computer relationship and how to understand each partner in this relationship. The different centers of excellence created at universities in the US by J.C.R. Licklider in the early 1960s was the basis of beginning important computer science research that spread interactive computing, time sharing, and the computer networking around the US and around the world. To talk about how it is harmful to support a "mysterious black box of science" is an attack on the support of basic research. Scientists look at the nature of the phenomena they are investigating. That doesn't have an immediate product or application that is produced but sets the basis for all kinds of future developments. However, if the basic research is not done, then the pipeline is empty for the future. >If Gore is elected president and if the House reverts to a Democratic >majority, Gore is likely to revive many of his technology investment plans >that were nixed by Republicans six years ago. He may even restart the >Congressional Office of Technology Assessment, the nation's only >technology forecasting agency that was killed by budget cuts in 1995. mmmm - 1994 - that was the year that the privatization of the US backbone to the Internet was to happen (it actually happened in 1995). That was the plan of the Clinton-Gore presidency-vice presidency. The technology investment was to enrich corporations at the expense of access for all in the U.S. A number of corporations got handouts worth millions. And the Internet became filled with ads and speculation and the precious scientific development that was done by public support for scientific activity in the US has been polluted and abused. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic parties in the US have any vision for the future or for how to provide for the public benefit. Support for basic science and technology research can set a basis for new developments. But there also needs to be ways found for support for public interest objectives rather than for commercial objectives for the results of research. Instead there are DARPA supported studies supporting people who are promoting the corporate view of the world of the future rather than studying what networking development has happened and how and what it needs to grow and flourish. Ronda ronda@ais.org http://www.ais.org/~ronda http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:24:22 -0400 (EDT) From: jrh@ais.org (Jay Hauben) Subject: [netz] Response to Gary Chapman, part II Gary Chapman raised some important issues of science policy in his Los Angeles Times article which Ronda Hauben continues to address in her second response which follows. It was posted to the NetTime mailing list. - ---------------------- > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:33:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: ronda@ais.org (Ronda Hauben) > To: gary.chapman@mail.utexas.edu, nettime-l@bbs.thing.net > Subject: Re: L.A. Times column, 8/14/00 -- Tech (Part 2 of 2 part response) Gary Chapman writes: >Ronda seems to think, because of my column, that I'm against basic >research, or basic scientific research. Nothing could be further from >the truth. >The issue that we've been fighting in the U.S. is that we (many >progressive activists who work on science policy) believe that basic >scientific research should be INCREASED, but -- the all-important but >-- supplemented with and guided by "national goals" that are >democratically derived. Republicans don't believe in national goals >for science policy. They don't want any intermediate or "bridge" >programs between basic research and the private sector. This is an >old, Vannevar Bush-era model of science policy that other nations >abandoned long ago. I don't see the Republican and Democratic science policies as different in essence. Nor do I see that the Republicans want to support the Vannevar Bush-era model of science policy. The Vannevar Bush-era model of science policy is in fact what has given us the Internet and interactive computing. Unfortunately, no one that I know of in the US government, including those in DARPA, are supporting such a policy at present. The Vannevar Bush-era model of science policy is what made it possible for Vannevar Bush to work at a high level inside the US government during WWII to support the technological and scientific advances needed in fighting WWII. After the war Vannevar Bush did a study with the help of many other scientists in the National Academy of Science (which is an organization created by the US government for scientific advice to the US government but which is a private entity). The report of the study was called "Science: The Endless Frontier" and it documented the need for government support for basic research in science and technology. It proposed the need to provide this support to researchers in the university community as that was where Bush and other scientists felt that there would be the most open and welcoming environment for the needed scientific work. I have a paper describing Bush's work and the kind of scientific research he proposed. It is online at http://www.ais.org/~rh120/other/arpa_ipto.txt I welcome discussion on the paper by you Gary, and by others on this mailing list. This is part I of a longer paper (I have by now done the first 5 parts). Part II and III show how the Vannevar Bush-era form of basic research is what people in the Department of Defense like those in AFOSR (The Air Force Office of Scientific Research) struggled to provide support for. And Licklider knew of what was happening in AFOSR as he was on the scientific advisory board for the Air Force and knew the other researchers in the DoD (US Dept of Defense) research organizations. My research has documented that there was struggle inside the research organizations in the DoD during the 1950's against product oriented pressures on research and for support for basic research in areas like communications. Such efforts provided support for Licklider's scientific research before he came to ARPA, and then was the kind of support he gave researchers when he came in to ARPA in 1962. So it seems that any effort to characterize the US Republican Party science policy as a Vannevar Bush-era program would need a lot of explanation as I see no sign of the Republican Party in the US supporting basic research the way Vannevar Bush outlined in "Science the Endless Frontier" nor the way the report was actually implemented by people who fought within the US Department of Defense to maintain support for scientists doing such research in the 1950s or 1960s. >Ronda's ideal of the "old Internet," the one fostered by ARPA, was >actually NOT the kind of basic research Republicans favor, but a real >technology development program of the kind that progressive science >policy activists support. I wonder why Gary Chapman says this? What study is this based on? Licklider's program at ARPA in 1962 is described in the paper he did before he went to ARPA titled "Human-Computer Symbiosis". Licklider had in mind the creation of human-computer symbiosis, of interactive computing, of human-to-human computer faciliated communication. Licklider had done scientific work with the nervous system of cats and was deeply interested in the brain and how the brain functioned. Along with other scientitists like John von Neumann and Norbert Wiener, Allen Newell, Herb Simon and several others, Licklider's, interest in the brain was an encouragement to see how the computer could become an intellectual aid to the human and to understand human intellectual activity. And Licklider's interest in the brain gave him a strong basis to support computer and human-computer development. So the research in interactive computing that led to the development of the Internet actually is the child of the studies in cybernetics that went on in the 1940's and 1950's. Licklider attended Wiener's study circles in the late 1940's and Walter Rosenblith, a scientist working with Wiener, took on to help Licklider understand the implications of Wiener's research. This has very interesting implications as Rosenblith later also was at the 1961 meetings at MIT on the Future of the Computer and he and Licklider talked about the importance of the human-computer partnership as the path forward in research. Also Rosenblith recognized the general nature of communication and the social needs of different species for communication. And he felt that it was important not to separate the research from these needs, not to look at communication in an isolated way but to keep the study connected to the needs of each species to communicate. So the ARPA/IPTO (Information Processing Techniques Office) Program that Licklider initiated in 1962 which set the foundations for research about the online world and for creating interactive computing and networking and eventually the Internet grew out of support for basic research. The programs of the US Democratic and Republican Parties in science and technology are product oriented instead of basic research oriented. In fact, it seems that at least the Democratic Party program (but probably the Republican program as well as that is how it works in the US), have come from the kind of reports done in the late 1980's which called for the creation of a civilian type of MITI (the Japanese government ministry that helps industry). These reports seemed to call for a new form of ARPA program to create industrial innovations for the advancement of the US commercial sector. This seems to be the thrust of the research funding done by the US government today and what they are proposing for the future. Thus we have the US government and US university researchers doing the research that industry would have done in the past, research that is interested in what industry can do in 3- 5 years, and the long term forward looking basic research looking ahead 10 or 20 years is not getting done. That seems why the issues of scaling the Internet have not been tended to by US researchers. Instead they are required to take up the problems of the commercial sector and how it can utilize the Internet. But the Internet is a general nature communications medium and it needs e-communications research to support its development, not a priority given to e-commerce research. >(It was in the Pentagon because that was >the only place where it could be supported for many years.) It is important to understand why basic research could be done inside the US Dept of Defense. After Licklider tried to return to DARPA in 1974-5 and found the environment changed, he explained that it was important not to lose the kind of research environment that ARPA had provided, and if that was no longer possible within ARPA, to find where else it could be done. But he believed that the technical and scientific expertise inside the DoD was an important support for forefronts research and that it was important that academic scientists take on to do forefronts research. And that when he had been at ARPA university researchers had been able to be active in their scientific fields as part of ARPA. Licklider also proposed that it was important to pressure government to support basic research and for scientists to be willing to work within government to get the needed support for basic research. >The ARPAnet program was developing technologies, deploying them, >fostering the intermediate sector of technological R&D, and "gluing" >all these things together with a vision that came from Licklider and >Taylor and others. This is exactly what the Republicans would kill, >were it to appear again in some modern form. This is certainly where Gary Chapman and I disagree. The ARPANET program grew out of and was a support for basic research. The basic research was in developing different ways to support the human computer interactive relationship. There were different research sites that Licklider had created and funded. One was at MIT, Project MAC, which had a broad mandate to support a broad range of exploration of human-computer interactive research. Another site was at what became Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburg. There was support for a center of excellence there to support exploring a communication science program led by Newell and Herb Simon and Alan Perlis at CMU. Newell describes the research at CMU as: "We are empirical, in that we believe in constructing programs that do things, and in learning about information processing from the difficulties of construction and from the behavior of resulting programs. We are theoretical, although not so much by a dependency on formal models (such as automata theory) as by trying to formulate the essential nature of information processing. Thus many, although by no means all, of the tasks for which we build programs are selected for the understanding they yield, not for their usefulness in applied work. This particular combination of theory and empiricism stems from the view that the key problems today in the science of information processing are those of discovery, formulation, representation, and immediate generalization -- and that we are not yet at the place of building very elaborate or formal mathematical structures that are significant." (from Section III - Centers of Excellence and Creating Resource Sharing Networks - http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/other/centers-excellence.txt) >When we attack the "black box" model of science, we mean a model of >science that is purely and EXCLUSIVELY "science for science's sake," >something disconnected from any social goals, democratic oversight, >interdisciplinary collaboration for public purposes, any connection >to "'technology pull," etc. What is interesting about this characterization by Gary of basic research is that it doesn't look back at how the Internet was developed, or what Licklider did that resulted in the important developments of our times. Instead it develops a theory that has no foundation in our past experience and it proposes this theory for the future. The basic research that Licklider did did indeed have social goals. But the pursuance of science is a social process because it is exploring the nature of phenomena and the behavior of those phenomena. The new concepts and ways of approaching the world that are discovered in the process of basic research are the path to a future. However, human-computer symbiosis keeps the human in the loop and so the social needs of the human are part of what is connected to the studies. DARPA is currently proposing to take the human out of the loop, to end research about that are part of the human-computer symbiosis paradigm. (There was an article by David Tannenhouse who had been at DARPA and is now at Intel. The article is in a recent issue of Communications of the ACM - perhaps the May 2000 issue.) >In other words, a priesthood of science >that gets to build an empire of government grants and elite >facilities that have no obligation to the public interest. Not only >that, this fosters wasteful and anachronistic competition between >scientific fields -- scientists all scrambling for their piece of the >funding pie -- rule by paternalistic and conservative organizations >of elite science like the National Academies, and all sorts of other >things that are the exact opposite of what Ronda advocates. Interesting. I have found that what developed from the support and protection of basic research is the opposite of what Gary suggests. I have studied the mailing lists done by researchers who were part of the early ARPA/IPTO developments. At the time there was protection against "for profit" related activity on the part of the researchers. This made it possible for the researchers to discuss broad ranging topics like whether science or the humanities are more important for the future (and they decided both are important). What I found is that basic research is needed. Support for researchers and protecting them from commercial objectives and pressures is needed. That a government program supporting university research is needed. And this is all very different from the kind of program that the Democratic Party or their candidate for President, or the Republican Party or their candidate for President propose. Gary seems to propose there is a difference between the two parties and their programs, and in the process he is characterizing the Republican Party as in support of basic research and saying that is a problem. I would welcome any party that would propose support for basic research and would actually be serious to implement such a proposal. But that isn't the situation in the US. >She also writes, "But there also needs to be ways found for support >for public interest objectives rather than for commercial objectives >for the results of research." Again, absolutely correct. In fact, >this is what The 21st Century Project, which I direct, has been all >about for the past ten years. It's my obligation to point out that we >were making headway on this project prior to 1994, when Democrats >controlled the Congress. After 1994, all progress toward this goal >came to a screeching halt. In fact, the progressive coalition working >on science and technology policy essentially gave up on Washington, >D.C., after November 1994. To the contrary we weren't making progress toward the support of basic research, which is indeed a public interest objective, in 1994. That was the period of time after ARPA/IPTO had been ended and there was the pressure within the US government to privatize science and technology policy and to require that it meet narrow and commercially set objectives. I will take a look at the testimony that Gary mentions in 1994, but 1994 was the height of the fight against the privatization of public policy and of the fight against the privatization of the NSF backbone to the US section of the Internet and I didn't see Gary advocating any challenge to the commercialization of the US backbone of the Internet or the kind of policy that the US government was pursuing which led to that commercialization during that period and as part of that fight. We document the NTIA online conference an online discussion of people fighting against the privatization and I wonder if Gary knows about this effort and welcome his reading about it either in its archieves online at the NTIA or the summaries that we have online in chapters 11 and 14 of Netizens http://www.ais.org/~hauben/netbook/ >Ronda and I are on the same side, although her hope for a >noncommercial, public interest Internet that looks like what the >Internet seemed to look like in the 1980s is, to me, utopian and >hopeless. I think the Internet of that time can serve as a benchmark >and an ideal for what we should fight to protect, but going back to >that time is not in the cards. The fight continues for a government policy, and I add government institution/s that are in support of the general purpose nature of the Internet as a communications medium. Anyone who characterizes this fight as "what the Internet seemed to look like in the 1980s... utopian and hopeless" is not helping in the fight. Gary, do you disagree that a general purpose policy is needed, a policy that supports the development of the Internet as a communications medium, not one that is dedicated to only e-commerce?? If so it would help if you acknowledge such rather than try to mischaracterize my work and efforts as "utopian". In fact, it is the e-commerce thrust of US science and technology policy that cannot provide any future for the Internet. It can only give the world a commercenet in place of the Internet. Is there some reason why your Institute doesn't support the kind of research I have been doing? What does it support? I have recently seen that DARPA has been funding Francis Fukuyama and others to study "Information and Biological Revolutions: Global Governance Challenges - Summary of a Study Group" (http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1139/ This study too has no notion that it is important to look back at the kind of research that made it possible to create the current advances in computer science and instead it ignores that history and is proposing a new direction independent of any lessons from that history. Just as humans learn based on utilizing their memory of what they have learned in the past, so the future of Internet development needs to be built on the lessons of the past, not by supporting those who have proclaimed "The End of History" . >-- Gary Ronda ronda@ais.org http://www.ais.org/~ronda/ http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook/ ------------------------------ End of Netizens-Digest V1 #364 ******************************